a

Top 10 Automotive Scope Tests You Can Make Money With TODAY!

[Music]

needing everyone in this I'm Pete Meyer

technical editor for motor Age magazine

as always here with my good friend mr.

Jean Jerry Julia thanks Pete always a

pleasure working with it and always a

pleasure working with everyone out there

and we want to thank our sponsor Pico

that way you guys can see this thing and

review it yeah I'm kind of proud of the

night's event too we got a lot of people

who signed up from all over the world

all over the world who've signed up for

tonight's webcast so again I wouldn't

happen without Pico so right we

appreciate that and that's also not

going to happen without the help of

those folks in the background here our

regular TSD supporter volunteer not only

told of course there's your lovely wife

Doreen behind the camera room thank you

so much Torian and the Epirus bow of ice

president TST manning the keyboard

you'll be able to answer a lot of your

questions yes we go along and then we

have a couple of extra people that may

be on tonight to answer specific one

if a cover that a moment but hey just go

back the beginning welcome to you

tonight and making money with your scope

top ten tests you can put to work yeah

not today maybe tomorrow tomorrow and

you know what the practice makes perfect

we've done quite a few different scope

ones over the years but if you use your

scope you can make money with it

yeah and that's actually kind of what

gave birth to the idea for tonight's

webcast you know talking about we're

objective tonight is you know I know

I for one when I started with the

magazine the close to ten years ago now

I would go to presentations around the

country or a talk detection around the

country and I and I'd always ask when

doing some type of scope presentation

how many guys in the room were using a

scope and back then if if I got one or

two hands up that was pretty good

right you know it was and when I know

the shop that I worked in before leaving

the field full-time

you know I was it I was the only guy who

had one or even tried one but now you're

seeing that kind of reverse I mean a lot

of guys and gals are saying the value in

that tool and I mean with all the

accessories you can get from a modern

scope you can there's not it I can't

think of any drivability parameter you

can't check it stroller using that

platform so and when we started talking

about this and thinking about this I

also saw a lot of comments from text it

would come up to us at an event or the

various automotive Facebook groups that

are out there and one of the common

things I saw was you know a lot of y'all

are excited about this advanced testing

techniques like the install or pressure

testing that's really big you're at

right now analyzing pressure and vacuum

waveforms even NVH you know with the

scope but a lot of guys are commenting

that that's all well and good but I'm

really not that friendly with my scope

yet right and then you know you've

brought up a very good point now you

know here I run a shop as well so we do

pressure until the pressure trenches

four years and how many times in a year

do you really need to go into cylinder

and do that right maybe more it's a

little more frequently than it was five

years ago because of v/vt

and some valve issues there but to be

honest with you it's really what we're

talking about tonight what you just said

it's really making money with your scope

doing the basic test and that's how you

get good at something and proficient if

by using it and trying it that's another

thing that came up too you know like a

lot of guys can see the value in those

more advanced tests but let's be

realistic that the accessories for those

to perform those tests are not cheap

that's true it's another expense over to

scope right and like you pointed out I

mean I might use that insulin or

pressure test once a week maybe if if I

specialized drivability maybe more often

but right now you know my screw up

sitting there collecting dust I don't

want to buy that kind of equipment for

something I'm only gonna need a few

times a week yeah so again tonight we

want to show you that that you can use

your scope for a lot more than that you

can use it every single day

corralling the cars and that's gonna

help you and again we want to make sure

we thank our sponsors of course the guys

at Pico who stepped up to sponsor

tonight's webcast and thank you

our friends at AE s oh yeah Jorge and

Carlos yeah great people

good accessories and as you're saying

earlier earlier we should have one or

two Pico gurus standing by on the chat

room so if you do have a specific

question about Pico then we're gonna let

them handle that okay that's not really

the goal of what we're trying to do here

you're not right

of course as you many already know at

the end of webcast we will be selecting

at random one of you who registered for

tonight's webinar to win this premium

six way breakout test lead from from

Pico thanks to the folks at Pico yeah

that's a real nice shot it is real nice

that hooks up to the scope leads and

hooks up to the components that you test

it on yeah and so the nice thing about

this test kit is if you can use this to

open up a connector insert these leads

in series and then it's already built in

for you to be able to attach the scope

to the same talked token so this avoids

minimizes any chance of damaging that

this system by back probing or piercing

correct so that's a big plus if you can

able to be able to do that

again somehow scuffing again we're

thanks to the folks are here you guys

have to understand it's like TST these

these men and women are out here tonight

because they want to be you know

nobody's getting paid for tonight we do

this because we want to try to help all

of y'all make a better living for

yourself you know if after you eat

tonight if you can go back to work

tomorrow and you know make a few extra

bucks and you could have otherwise and

then it was a success exactly right and

we'd love to hear from them some of yous

do get in touch with us we really

appreciate that yeah absolutely

make sure that you look at that handout

link that's right below the player that

you're watching the webcast on we took

the time to put together you know what I

call a tool box reference for you it's

gonna outline a lot of the tests that

we're doing tonight give you some no

good no bad tell you how to hook up the

scope what what to set the scope to so

again if you're if you're watching and

you're kind of new to scope you so

you're not that comfortable with it this

will help you just speed up that

learning process a little bit

make sure you download that and keep

that in your box and in case you do miss

it email us and we'll get we'll get it

to you yeah no worries

yes Jie said if you have a question or

comment use the chat function

it'll be monitored during the course to

webcast and if there's something that

pier or one of our experts online aren't

able to help you with they'll throw it

up to us and we'll do our best to answer

that question for you if for some reason

we can't again but don't don't let that

stop you as G said reach out to us

contact us email us at neither one of us

is hard to find look us up on Facebook

send us a message there with your

question or your comment and and we'll

do everything we can to help you that's

what we're here and last just a little

housekeeping note this is going to be of

course recorded and posted back to the

page where you are now so that you can

look at it as many times as you want but

give me a few days we're gonna have

several gigabytes of data to go through

and process and it does take some time

so give me a few days to get that up and

running don't be upset with me if you

don't if you go back tomorrow and you're

not able to well come on can't work 24

plus hours all right

here's really what we want to focus on

tonight we're going to talk about scope

settings and the ones that apply to

every single scope so no matter which

one you own you'll be able to take this

information then know what you have to

set as far as the parameters go for you

to capture a pattern we're going to

explain what the twenty to twenty twenty

rule is to capture a waveform then the

Balkans tonight is gonna be focusing on

testing techniques that don't really

require a lot of accessories maybe an

amp clamp yeah these are typically come

with you know scoped kids so with

something you probably have either

four-year scope or maybe four your

multimeter right right so right maybe

this in your box already as we go along

we're also gonna share some of the

points on what to look for when you're

looking at the pattern because one of

the things that GI are very big

proponents on is voltage drop

understanding what it is and how to use

it to to fine electrical issues and a

lot of the things that we're doing with

the Scopes tonight we're setting up the

scope to measure voltage drop pretty

much

right but we're gonna be able to see it

over time which is the true power of the

scope and we'll walk through that as we

talk about these different tests no

doubt and last not least we'll talk

about the first two accessories that you

probably already have but if you don't

they'd be the first ones that I would

add to my scope kit what we're not gonna

cover we're not gonna get any advanced

testing techniques we're not going to

talk about insulin or pressure waveform

all that stuff we're not going to get

into the features and benefits that the

pico itself may offer or compare to or

anything like that that's not the goal

of tonight as G alluded to earlier so

many times we see text your struggle or

we teach the class that it's not even

really advanced material let's meet

middle-of-the-road magnet material but

we still see you know people in the

audience who have that for lack of a

better way to describe it that during a

headlight look because there because the

foundation is not strong okay and it's

okay but understand that you got to

shore that up first and when you have

that good and solid then you can very

easily incorporate some of those more

advanced techniques in that more

advanced knowledge let me just give it a

good exam one quote at Google that came

up really good Bruce Lee said I don't

fear the man who has practiced 10,000

kicks once by fear the man who has

practiced one kick 10,000 times now

think about that fellas that if you're

if you're just hitting and messing with

your scope your scan tool or anything

else that you're using to try to fix the

card or you're waiting for something to

break before you use it you're the guy

who's doing that 10,000 kicks once right

if you take the time to work at it

practice on it repeat that process and

we're going to show you some ways to do

that well then you're gonna be good that

guy who's feared you may only know that

one kick but boy the guy right you bet

and you could get a little test board to

practice at home absolutely you know

sometimes you may have some spare time

at night or on a weekend early in the

morning you really need to practice

because practice makes perfect and don't

just rely on you know auto setup auto

setup can really mess you up once we get

advanced going into more and more job

but all of the stuff we're going to show

you tonight is basic stuff that you need

to practice on any lab scope that you

have again we'll be using a Pico but it

doesn't matter what's great it's gonna

apply this to anything that you have all

right so let's talk about the settings

for every scope that you might home the

very first thing that you're going to

have to make this decision on is how

much time do you want to display on your

scope screen now again these folks have

the ability to record data and deep

record data and just I mean there's so

many things that you can do with them

but if you're just starting out I want

it on one screen I want it right there

where I can see it that that's that's

how I tend to look at it

so that's where I'm encouraged you just

start off with yes you can build on the

rest once you've got that down but we

want it first to decide how much time do

when you want to display on the screen

and this is a power the scope because we

are being able to trace that input

whatever it might be over time and see

it just like we graph data PIDs on our

scan tool and we should say some scopes

do voltage or time per screen some do it

per division so one of the things I

always teaching my logical classes is

let's take this injector how much

voltage goes to a fuel injector it's not

rocket science of cars running it's

going to be somewhere from 12 maybe to

17 volts right dependent in 17 volts

will be regulated very quickly but you

know you got to be somewhere in that

range to get a reading then it's going

to have that inductive kick when you

shut something off how much time there's

a regular fuel injectors stay on without

going into GDI just a regular injector

port and injectors sequential injection

that we had around four years now maybe

three milliseconds or so at idle a hot

idle so you get that in your head and

you could figure if I had 10 divisions

well maybe if I made twenty milliseconds

per screen or two milliseconds per

division I would get myself a picture

and that's what we're dealing with yeah

and you know don't get caught up with

doing the auto again because when you do

Auto it may only be affecting one and

this particular scope has four channels

yours may have to war for channels or

maybe eat depending on the particular

scope you're working on so don't get in

that I get to know what voltage in time

would yell one thing and just to stress

together what G pointed out to you when

you're looking at those settings on

whatever scope model you own when it

comes to time typically the two choices

you're either gonna see per division

right or what the total rays or sweep

then they may say what sweep you want

across that's great

correct okay the next one is is the

vertical axis that's voltage of course

no matter what accessory you plug in

it's still a voltage input that the

scope is reading good point right so the

current clamp is going to convert that

to a voltage input the pressure

transducers can bring that to a voltage

input many of these scopes when you're

using those type of because especially

if they're made by the same company

there'll be a drop-down menu that helps

take this to take care of the scaling

for you but again what we're focused on

here is that what type what's the total

range of voltage that we want to look

for on the screen right and as you just

pointed out that kind of leads me in to

the 20/20 rule right if you're working

on something automotive most everything

automotive is going to be under 20 volts

right yeah ghosts everything motor

exception yep but for the most part

where work is still working on a 12 volt

system so we're working on that now the

other 20 let's talk about that 20 volt

range so that's where we're gonna set

the the voltage to and what you

typically see is you'll probably see

something more like plus or minus right

no 20 so that there's that zero line

allows you to read negative numbers so

20 volt range for that the other 20 does

20 milliseconds per division on the

scope coming across see so if there's 10

we try is a trick question see if it is

paying attention to what we're doing if

there's 10 divisions and it's 20

milliseconds per division how much is it

per screen what's per screen what's the

suite someone out there should have that

millisecond all right good 200 miles

thank you 200 milliseconds okay now

here's the good one for you why do you

think we're choosing 200 milliseconds

why we use that for the 2020 rule it's

like jeopardy tick tick and we win all

that money that dude won

Yeah right yeah thank you points some

million dollars he killed but not the

record no 200 milliseconds and that's

your trivia question for the night 200

milliseconds is enough to just about

take care of one full revolution or what

I think 720 degrees yeah of of an

automotive engine in idle so we just

keep that in mind if you're working in

an engine idle 20 milliseconds you

should be able to catch the full

four-stroke event like yep so if you're

hooked up to a camera crank sensor or a

spark event or something like that

you'll cover that all right so that's

our twenty20 rule that's if you want to

get a patent something on the screen

2020 will get you something started and

that goes back to what you're saying

about the little practice test board

this has happened to be one from snap-on

that we used for to make this it's just

a simple square wave pattern but again

you can see that we have the 20 20 just

basis just to get something on the

screen and we're at zero and we're a 5

volt reference signal we would view the

top and the ground then usually we're

working on stuff when it's grounded

that's when the component is coming on

mm-hm

so now let's see well we have something

starting to screen now that's kind of

small so if we want to start

manipulating the pattern so we get a

nice clear picture well we can use

voltage and time adjustments to do that

so let me share with you what that's

going to do on time if we increase the

amount of time on the screen you can see

how that pattern has become a blur but

what's nice feature about having that

blur feature if I don't know if you can

see that there's a little teeny drop out

there in the middle and this is this was

the kind of thing you look for when

you're graphing a kid

you're looking for that that one little

glitch or something that stands out so

here's again where the power of the

scope comes in so I always say this is

signature signature to the signal that's

going to ground coming up it's a nice

square wave

nothing's breaking up but many times you

will not find the glitch on the vehicle

why it's cutting out you need to

increase the time and during if you can

just get in right on that okay that's

really where the problem is so I called

it the picket fence and when the picket

fence

has a little break in it there we go we

got the problem okay so hopefully you

understand it this is to look at the

pattern whether it be fuel-injection

square wave pad and cam crank don't

matter once you see the signature and it

looks good

stop take the time increase it and let's

see where the problems okay and again a

lot of these scopes have some very good

features that will help you capture

these dropouts by using their drop down

menus and their adjustments but again

the t I want is I don't care if you pick

up that cute little and very very

capable one channel a new scope yep all

the way up to there's a big box you know

eight channel 80s cope or any of the

Pecos no matter which one you happen to

have in your hand you can perform this

on all of them and snap-on did a good

update I know on our Zeus they did an

update recently that allows you for more

time the oldest software if you haven't

updated to scope you may not be able to

tighten it up increase the time that

much but the newer stuff it seems like

they've done that so I get it I get to

see a whole bunch of different scopes in

class its yeah they come so it all works

out so here's some good information so

again you see our and the course we've

all focused on the increase here but the

verse is true as well with your decrease

of time you can see how it starting to

spread that pattern out well that's the

effect there well you know the other

thing is when you're getting a little

little old and blind like us if you want

to make it bigger right you're gonna

decrease the time so if I keep

decreasing this I may only have one

square wave and if I increase it we make

it smaller we could do the same with

voltage good way yeah and if we want to

see that bigger may

be this big now almost taking your whole

screen - back to what you were saying

about the injectors right we all know

that they don't take if I have 20

milliseconds on the screen I'll see you

all four six or eight or however many on

the run so by adjusting the time like

we're doing here we endow the one

we want to take a look at correct and

now in a voltage and just to show you

the impact of voltage if you increase

the total range on the screen it's gonna

be like zooming out of the picture you

can see that the the time between the

pattern itself really hasn't changed but

the height is absolutely a lot less

right really squinted up squish them and

the reverse side if you raise the

voltage or excuse me if you decrease the

amount of voltage range on the screen

well now you're zooming in and you're

getting a clearer picture so you can use

the - when I don't have it in there it's

in your handout but you see you can use

that to tailor the pattern to what you

want to see and how you want to see it

this is more my speed where I need to

see it better yeah so I rather decrease

it after I've right once I've got the

signal

let's swing it in yep tweaking it next

time talk about trigger there's really

three basic options that you have you

have first none and depending on this

scope you'll generally see a pattern

just kind of pops in and out a quote

walking or if you're taking a ASE test a

8 sometimes on l1 walk in across the

screen what does that mean the triggers

not set properly so that's a walking

pattern others the next one is probably

a couple different terms for it either

normal or a repeat right for Pete right

which is going to allow you to you'll

capture that pattern and keep it on the

screen nice and steady then there's a

single mode and we're gonna actually

show that in one of our tests here we

get the one shot image that's really

good if you're like working by yourself

and you want to try to capture something

you'll have an extra pair of hands to

help you it's like touch hold on a meter

so you want to lock it on there you give

it one shot and they'll stay on the

screen yeah perfect

so before we go further any questions

yeah we went over a lot of info there

and again Bay

SiC to some but difficult to others you

know the nice thing about this rather

than me doing a hands-on class is the

nice thing about this is you don't have

to be embarrassed

no one knows no one's looking at you so

you could ask us the questions we'll

give you the answer and then you need to

practice on your own good that's a very

good question that's really up to up to

you now generally I like to start in if

they're the the ten divisions on time I

usually like to come in right about the

first or second division line where I

usually talk in here or here right

that's normally where I like to go I

usually go to first box now I'll give

you an example here you know one of the

things why I want that first box I want

to see this line of voltage this is my

charging system voltage on the car so I

could see right away if the alternator's

charging if this thing's hugging 12

volts and not hugging you know 14 15 or

a little more I could see that I also

want to know when we trigger you know

that were maybe stable I like triggering

at 50 percent of the voltage I'm dealing

with so if this is working out 14 volts

I want to take my trigger and trigger at

7 volts right that stabilizes the

reading for me yeah and that's what I

like to teach and that's the other thing

too that you was mentioning just declare

an additional clarification for what

he's referring to is the voltage

threshold that you're telling the Scopes

start drawing the picture correct right

so in his case very good rule of thumb

use half of what you expect and you'd be

sure to catch something the other hot

side of that is not only what that

threshold is but when that threshold

occurs is it occurring as it starts from

a base voltage and goes up or is it from

a rising going down for select rising

slope if you're looking for it to say

okay I got a 12 volt system and I'm

gonna say that we're doing a primary

ignition for example and we know that's

gonna be 100 200 volt so we're gonna see

on the screen let's pick a 100 and we're

gonna use that as our voltage level but

I'm going to see it

from 12 up and draw that pattern so I'm

gonna set that as a rising voltage on

the injector yeah but maybe I want to

see it go from 12 and then get pulled to

ground excellent and that's what's going

on here this is a falling edge isn't it

here's 12 volts going in the computers

applying ground right here so you want a

slope that is a negative slope or

falling slope okay depending on what

your lab scope says that is an important

thing to know yeah and then and if you

want it if you're doing a single capture

like an injector or ignition waveform or

something similar if you want to play

the middle screen that's up to you

that's the neat thing about using the

scope you do it the way you want to do

it you'll get you know the big thing is

we all have what we prefer okay I mean

Pete and I both prefer to hug that side

a reason why I like that if I race the

motor up this is going to come this way

if I have the right slope on it and the

right trigger right and then sometimes

you may not want to use trigger because

trigger is gonna lock it in there and we

did this on a video where sometimes we

may find a problem if you turn it you'd

be better to let it free run or just

auto capture okay so it all depends you

need to practice these are basic things

that you could practice with it and play

with it play with it play that's the

whole idea is get caught you're good at

it

any questions beer no okay we're just

like kind of like feel like we're living

twins going same thing maybe the same

time all right let's do some testing

that's the guy waiting for me yeah these

are gonna be tests that you can do and

then you scope your own and pretty much

with whatever you it came with when you

got it correct all right so let's start

with number one we're gonna start with a

battery charging system test because I

like this test because it's something

you can do every car that comes into

your shop every car that comes into your

Bay and that's something that we've

talked about in the past one of the

comments that we both heard with guys

who aren't using their scope or

interesting but just haven't really

played with it it's because oh it just

takes so much time to get all set up I

got to get it out of the box and I got

to get the leads out and I gotta starts

a computer and I got to do all this and

and my response to that is when you go

to work in the morning you turn on the

lights right turn on let's go yeah

exactly you got all the other stuff that

you're turning on in the morning add

that scope to your list have it up and

running and ready and I gotta say if you

go to any of these automotive groups on

Facebook some of you guys have gotten

very creative and building your own yes

there's gone so nice to see some really

nice jobs and it's just ready they're

ready to go when you need it so make

that a habit and the other thing you can

do to make a habit so that you can get

comfortable with the scope and playing

with the settings and playing with the

triggers is to perform tests on a

vehicle as many times as you get a

chance to and if you're gonna do

something that's going to help you learn

and also benefit your customer at the

same time the battery charging system

test is a great way to go oh yeah you

can save these screenshots and showed a

customer that's where their voltage drop

down where it started from and where

it's gonna rise to once we check the

charges yeah I mean you'll find

weaknesses in in this test that may not

show up at other testing methods and

it's not so much for me down south but

for you guys up here in the north when

that whether it goes from nice to cold

marginal battery is no longer marginal

it's not enough to crank the car I'm

sure that customer would appreciate

knowing that in advance right oh no

doubt right so this is good if someone

doesn't have a battery tester and it not

only helps them get that information but

makes them get better at using this

scope more proficient absolutely yeah

all right so so we want me to break your

field scope and let's talk about what

we're doing here first make sure that I

have everything set up and ready to go

yep and I'll be ready at the vehicle

when you all ready sir

this so if everyone has a scope you need

to take it out of the box get it all set

up

make sure your battery is good if you

use it a scope type a laptop base one or

tablet base one as Pete said you know

like we do here we put our laptops on in

the morning and if we're gonna use the

scope it's there it's up it's ready to

rock and roll and once you do that

you're all set so I'm gonna spray real

quickly what we're doing as far as the

setup goes again this is in that that

tool box reference that I mentioned

don't forget to download that it's right

below the players and the link but we

just have one channel right now there

are a few scrubs in the market that's

all they are but they're very competent

little scopes in their own right sure

all we're doing is connecting to the

battery with our leads just like you

would your multimeter and triggered I'm

gonna use the single trigger function

because what I want to have happen here

is once I've felt that screen up with

data I want to quit the hole so you

don't want to it's right it's like

taking a screenshot right yeah

absolutely and if I wanted somebody you

know if I had somebody helping me maybe

I can get them to hit the start/stop on

the keyboard but this way I don't have

to do that it's just gonna automatically

do it itself of course we only have the

one channel select for as far as the

trigger goes so that's already set up

let's see if I can make sure I have the

trigger amount set up now what do you

think I've want to use for a trigger and

we're gonna do this manually up to fast

slow down buddy you let me know what I

know I'm starting with the battery

that's got the open circuit voltage in

it roughly 12 and some change which we

can go back and measure here in a moment

it's not gonna it's gonna increase but I

want to catch the drop first right so

I'm gonna go with a falling edge falling

slope we got that set up verify that

setup correctly and we're gonna voltage

level that I want well what's the

typical range we're looking for we don't

want it to drop much more than nine and

a half right yeah nine point six

was always the mouth vada ase test newer

vehicles you may not want to go into

10.1 so I'm gonna try it at 10 volts and

we'll see what happens so I got the

trigger setup scope is is let get that

running will get it started and now

we're ready to crank it you want me to

clear flood it or you want to start

no go ahead just start it okay oh that

was noisy

okay Joe it got it okay first you guys

saw that a lot of hash of the signal

really noisy that can come from a couple

of different things the underhood

environment it's very noisy electrically

but this particular model this picture

scope has a way to filter that out

that's set up and now what you see is

very similar to what you see on the on

the screen in the stream right so we're

gonna kind of walk back over to the red

one there so we can take a look at that

in a little more detail this is just the

voltage at the battery that it's all

we're gonna start with so let's kind of

walk across it and in order to make sure

I'm not going to get too in the way that

we do this and talk about it in terms of

testing any electrical system and we're

connected to the battery we're looking

at battery voltage we all know that we

crank the engine over we're putting a

load against that battery that's going

to drop the voltage down correct right

that's just basic electronics basic

electrical so we're starting off and

we're starting off with open circuit

voltage that's gonna give us the state

of charge of the battery we don't know

that's got to be around twelve six no

less than twelve four know in order for

us to continue and you're a 13-6 right

there yep about thirteen point Oh

thirteenth some change so we had a

little surface charge on that right but

then one last is the dip when we first

turned the key on and module start

waking up so there's a small dip right

there that we can see on the on the

screen and I don't think if you and you

can zoom in on most copes to see that

more clarity but if you look very very

closely right there in the corner you'll

see that small little dip and if you can

see that on the screen or not but that

small little dip that's the moment that

the starter solenoid contacts closed and

now we're starting to send that both his

potential into the starter okay and then

we see this huge drop in voltage now one

of the powers of the scope is how fast

you can see something

we're talking milliseconds nanoseconds

yeah when it comes to this so what we're

seeing here if we were doing a

conventional battery test we might

consider that loaded voltage but it's

really not it's a little something

different we call it in Russia voltage

correct this is what's happened when

that starter motor is first trying to

turn it takes something to get that

motor to me it's like pushing a car Pete

we have a lot bind X app so that's a

great that's a great way to explain it

and once we got it moving it's not so

hard right it's correct so not only we

try and get the starter motor move it

but it's got to get moved against all

the resistance of the engine components

it's attached to right so we got got to

turn that crank we got to get those rods

and pistons moving all of that is

causing this this inrush voltage that

you see here as a rule of thumb I don't

like to see that go below

eight-and-a-half yeah again less than

what you would consider in a

conventional loaded test right because

this is a lot quicker yeah this is

different than using a battery load test

right and as we'll see when we add

current to this it's also at a much

higher current level that you will not

see on one of those AVR zoar right

that's or right volt damn tester type

things so as we continue we start to see

that the ampere strawberries or the

voltage drop reduce but now it's got

these funny little squiggles in it well

let's think about that in terms of

what's happening

if the starter motor is just starting to

turn over the engine and it's coming up

against the resistance of each piston

each cylinders it's pink pushed up

through its compression stroke and it's

starting to pick up some speed again

that's the power of the scope it's how

fast we're looking at it is these

individual Pistons moving in that engine

and you actually see that's the impact

of each individual cylinder but then it

starts picking up speed and then all of

a sudden it cranks and runs and look at

the voltage difference so rather than

being somewhere about a dish where

somewhere maybe 11 ish height ends 11

ish yeah now that is a good loaded

voltage right so another words repeat

telling is we don't want to look at that

first in rush voltage you'd be like you

first push in the car a lot of energy

has to be used yeah this is quicker than

any of your electronic battery type

testers whether it be Medtronic's

associated whoever yeah okay

it's it's quicker than that so that's

why we see a little bit more of a dip

but we level out and then what happens

once we run install and then that upward

ramp you see there now the alternator

spinning and it's starting to put it

back into the battery well we took out

and finally stabilizes the voltage and

that's an area you don't want to see

take too long it shouldn't take long to

put back in the battery right what we

took out right listen we have a slip and

belt and alternate a problem yeah

something going on or even sometimes a

battery issue can cause that all right

so you can see the similar things on the

one that we captured this for giggles

well go ahead and pull down the see what

our inrush level was so we're using a

curse in a market so we gotta wait for

as well about the eight and a half and

we all heard it right where was no yeah

slow or hasn't seen its ability to spin

over so any questions is just a voltage

pattern so far no very good we're ready

for port 2 part 2 coming up now we're

gonna add current to the pattern alright

so we know a couple of adjustments here

so we're gonna put another channel on

we're gonna be doing voltage on one and

current on Channel two

now most scopes when you buy them well I

would say are many scopes when you buy

and pìkô is one of them ATS you both on

those get amp clamps with them and snap

on it is additional where you need to

purchase them

I think fluke you would need to purchase

them a lot of a lot of the companies out

there you need to buy them but Pico

includes them a low amp and a high amp

clamp and in this case we want our high

amp clamp right and then the newest one

they offer Dow is up to 2,000 amps so

it's rule we use it on diesel

question before you started talking

amperage overlaying a second channel

with alternator duty cycle would help

right you know that's a really great

question the question was overlaying the

alternator duty cycle on a second

Channel would help it certainly would

help and if you're diagnosing a charging

system related problem correct right but

again that's the beauty of the scope

you're looking at the relationship

between the duty cycle versus the

voltage output the other thing we should

be clear to point out is we're giving

you some basic fundamental rules of

thumb however there's a lot of smart

system charging system strategies in

place you've got to go into the service

information and we know how that our

charging system is going to react and

you can actually see it in this capture

how the voltage level is comes up and

starts to feed back in and then it

starts to step up again right so it's

like a second almost the second stage

and I haven't done the homework on this

one to see what it's supposed to be but

let's just give an idea you've got to

know that and one of the questions I ask

is is if you saw 17 bolts right after

startup and the charging system would

that be a problem it's so many guys will

tell me yeah 70 volts is overcharging

now on today's go Sara Lee not

necessarily not necessarily so there are

some models that do you can go up to 17

117 - they don't stay there long right

yeah of course once battery case

temperature hits 125 we'll have a little

bit of expansion there and a problem

right so it's good to do it but it's

going to do it very quickly okay they

need to stabilize all the electronics

that we have in a vehicle first question

was so would you want to read into the

waveform more closely further and that's

again that's up again what the question

is is okay what do you want to read more

get more information from this waveform

yes absolutely that's where we're kind

of going over the elements and and

granted we'll kind of go over it kind of

quickly right but it's in that handout

that we gave you right there are more

videos in our both TST YouTube and motor

age YouTube channel that cover it

well these tests a lot of these tests in

more detail surely invites you want to

join that but that's why we're kind of

stretching this one at first because

this is something you can again you get

every car that comes into your stall you

can hook up and form this test it takes

no time and you have a lot of

information in it now if you really want

to get the full package we got to do

what we're getting ready to do we're

gonna add the current to it right and

you don't necessarily always need to

pick the pepper out of the fly dough

what you need to look at is did the

voltage drop to a specific level on a

scope we said you know eight and a half

it's probably as low as we want to go

when it levels out you've seen what we

did there it was somewhere in the tennis

so that means you got a good battery

that's able to hold up now when we do

current current this work so we're

really gonna see what's going on I'm

gonna crank it over as Pete explains now

before we go and actually crank crank

this over I doing a couple things about

using the amp clamp of course make sure

that you zero the tool before you put it

on probably near the load linear the

load and understand that we're gonna see

a lot of current coming through here now

the other thing I want to point out is

I'm going to I take it off her so you

can see it we can all see that it's got

an indicator on there in this case it's

telling us to face the air clamp and the

direction of the arrow towards the

positive post of the battery okay so let

me stick that back on real quick and I

want to talk about that for a minute and

let's also let me add something in here

this is a high current probe yes not to

be used to check like for parasitic draw

unless the specific clamp you purchased

is specked out for that right then other

words that you could read down to mill

evil milliamps right now that arrow that

you saw on the tool is based on the old

conventional positive to negative

current flow theory and if we were to

put it on in that direction the current

pattern that you're going to see would

actually be reversed we're not used to

looking at that really we kind of like

the things look at things going up

down so just to make it and see if I

clear as I can all I'm doing is I'm

gonna going that more backwards instead

of facing the positive terminal I'm

facing out arrow towards a negative

terminal so I'll get that pattern going

up on the screen rather than down now

you can look at it either way you want

in fact you're probably makes more sense

if you're looking at discharge to look

at it going down but it's been around

for so long now we're all kind of used

to seeing it that way that's why we're

gonna show it to you that way here yep

so just verify I've got my trigger set

again single captures so I can fill the

screen we're now going to use the the

current probe as my trigger source so

we'll switch that over to the channel

it's on channel beat I'm gonna use 100

amps as my threshold when I tell it to

start drawing the pattern and again we

have it set in about two divisions in

we'll go ahead and turn that single

trigger on and we can crank whatever

you're ready here we go

look I bet we didn't have a naught to

turn the clamp on all right you let me

know if you're ready ah that should go

give a shot

oh why not well see when you do stuff

live things could happen and this is

what we're really happening your shop

now whether he's not triggering on that

particular channel or the clamp wasn't

on was in zeroed these double checks and

all that make sure you make sure the

clamp is are all around all of the

cables whether you're going to the

positive or negative side around all of

the cables and the jaws are all

completely closed and we had something

there but not quite what I want so we're

gonna try that again

okay hit it here we go

okay and now the screens full we can

shut it off we have our data and now

we've had it current to the capture and

as voltage goes down what happens to

that current oh that current went way up

yeah

and that's why I really want you guys to

see here of just how high that current

is let's just get an idea measure it for

you so we'll just kind of grab one of

the cursors yeah and every tool has them

they just operate maybe a little bit

differently and we're drawing 980 amps

Oh Pete that's impossible isn't it oh my

battery cable would burn up no and

here's the reason why it's no it's

happening so quickly yes this is what

your AVR people go argue with this hold

up well you know my VAT or my snap-on

unit or whatever company it is it never

goes that high of course not you're

looking and this is like a meter versus

a scope this we can read things very

very quickly right super quickly and I

like right here to is as the blue fell

down that's the voltage amperage went

right up at the same time you know I

used to use this years back on my old

son machine my old bear 400 and you can

take a picture of it back then it was a

little hard to freeze on a screen bear

400 was okay but not the original son

machines question Pierre

their audio no not uh alright so again

like so you saw that peak just like we

talked about in revolted same

terminology inrush current it's just

that that microsecond amount of current

necessary to kick the starter in the

butt and get everything moving and then

you can see there very quickly that that

load drops and we start to see those

same patterns as each piston is moving

through that compression stroke that's

what you're seeing there but you notice

that that the requirement to keep them

moving is dropping as this picks up

speed

go back to your analogy pushing the car

once it's rolling it's not it's not as

hard to push anymore that's what we're

seeing here picking up speed finally the

engine it starts running and we're

starting off on a discharge because we

took something down the battery it

starts to get it put back in and we let

it stabilize we should have a net

current level somewhere around three to

five amps so peak could we measure what

the amperage is can we move that cursor

down yeah let's just pull it look if we

take a look at something we're on that

somewhere close to the average will come

right here somewhere middle we're in the

middle they're not what they used to be

so I have been 11 volts we're about a

hundred and something amps slain about

two hundred amps okay and 11 volts so

that's then that would be a little

closer to when you're taught starter

load right and battery loaded voltage

it's a little bit closer so you see the

relationship there and if we crank them

longer you know obviously we may see it

even go down an average out at a lower

yes I'm out somewhere probably 175

somewhere not full and then in this for

vehicles defense we kind of beat it's

been crank death

it didn't ceremony might be a little

warm preparation let's look at this

again how long you know we're yakking

with you but how long did it really take

to set this up right to check voltage

and amperage on the starter and looking

at even your alternator in your battery

you did this

it's probably at all honestly a 5 to 10

minute test because it's not hard to

he'll hook up we're at the battery yeah

with the amp clamp and with the leads

absolutely and the other thing I want to

point out here and I believe that's in

the hand as well it's that net you want

to make sure you get around all the

cables because the more literally what

y'all dangers putting in and what the

system is taking out what's left over is

what I'm interested in and here's

something that you'll find that that you

can diagnose if you got vehicles that

are eaten all alternators it could be

that there's a sulfate of battery that

has gone undetected you'll catch it with

this because if you see that that net

current rate is higher than normal

generally it's because there's a problem

with the battery even if it passes

conventional load test capacitance test

whatever if it's taking it excess

current temps a lot more quick then it's

putting more heat load in that

alternator and and while the alternator

certainly designed to put out a lot a

lot of current and a lot of both a lot

of current rather it's not designed to

do it for any long length of time

correct right so that's what we're

looking at there alright any questions

they just pop them up if you have any

questions and we're gonna keep my little

good okay alright next one on the list

just want to point out there we can take

a look at the screen real quick that I

do what I mentioned since Pico is so

kind of sponsored this they do have a

few features on the scope that could be

helpful one going back to the regular

scopes when you looked at they have a

menu of tests guided tests that will

help set the scope up for you give you a

sample of a decent waveform and then you

go ahead and take your test and you can

prepare this particular one is actually

part of their diagnostic suite which you

can download to go with their scopes as

well this is doing pretty much what we

just did right the blue trace is the

voltage that we looked at the red trace

the current you have to plug in some

numbers for yourself you have to talk

about the current temperature of the

battery some other factors the crank

cold cranking amps you'll let it know

what it's testing against but then it's

not only going to perform the test it's

going to provide you with test results

as well

now imagine maybe we'll hand that to a

customer and they very impressive and

you can see that here overcharged or

lowest voltage it gives you really a

very nice detailed report that you could

print out or text them or email or

whatever and if you've got that marginal

battery especially you guys draw a pair

of North that's that's a battery sale

yeah what should be a battery sale

everywhere all right are the next test

here's a known bad again we're still

working in a battery charging systems

but look at the difference in that

pattern I mean the current is absolutely

a smudge looks terrible a blue pattern

the voltage pattern also you can see is

really smudgy so what's causing that

well again that's what we're going to

talk about AC coupling and what we're

doing here is we're looking at a pattern

that's that's what we just looked at on

the voltage line but we're going to

focus on just the AC component of the

signal and what does this allow us to do

instead of having a look at something we

want to look at something very small

very close up but because it's being

carried on that 12 or 14 volt signal it

would be off our screen where you'll if

you sprint you wouldn't be able to see

it so all we're doing is we're taking

the DC component out we're pulling that

12 volts out

leaving the a/c behind again this is a

feature every scope I'm aware of has

it's part of your drop-down menu it also

comes to play and it some tests we're

gonna look at here in a little bit by

using that feature if I'm not worried

about the actual voltage amount DC volts

it will current amount I can use AC

coupling just to focus on the variance

from peak to peak and in some cases

that's really gonna help us find

problems okay no doubt that's AC

coupling well most of the time in

automotive we DC couple so in case

you're not familiar with that on a scope

you would have AC or DC you would in

this case we want to a c-cup scene of

lowest voltage of around seven volts and

oh yeah and I'm gonna give you a great

example of that my own personal truck I

was performing this test for another

project and it came in at seven point

six and I ignored it and I live in

Florida we don't get cold often no the

first time we did I got a call from my

kid he was borrowing the truck taught me

the truck wouldn't start and it needed a

new battery yeah it still might start

the truck just fine but my mind if it's

below eight and a half that battery's

not for this earth much longer we do

something that's going to add more

strain to it or the weather changes or

something like that I personally went to

have a problem telling my customer that

it's fine today but it's gonna go it's

gonna go it's pretty pretty soon all

right so that's what I would I would say

all right any other questions before we

move on okay all right next time the

agenda again what we're looking at here

this particular example are the AC the

diodes in the alternator so this is a

way to tell the condition of the diodes

and I pretty sure I have this in the

handout you're looking here is obviously

a bad example as compared to well I

don't know the creation on the slides

but it's in the

handout shows you with no good what mole

that is generally anything over half a

volt measure top to bottom is bad

do I hear the peak exactly do I care if

it's shorted or open or what no I don't

all I know is that it's bad right so I

know that the alternator in our previous

example right now we know here the only

there might be charging which we can see

from the voltage level but it's pulling

it in and out just as fast as this you

know what I mean you're getting that

pulse going on right and you can see

that also in the current and here's the

other thing with with AC ripple which is

what this is called if you didn't know

well another problem that AC ripple is

control modules hate AC ripple because

they don't know how to act right you

know a computer is simple on/off yes/no

ones and zeros so when you start

throwing something and it's like it's

like one knows you know half no seven no

and then bouncing around like that it

doesn't know how to act and if it

doesn't know how to act it just decides

not to do it and AC always rides on DC

and this is another reason you've all

heard about programming and you need a

clean battery maintainer okay absolutely

that's course we're dealing with AC

voltage and as Pete said computers do

not like it when they see the dipping of

up and down of the voltage that can

really mess you up and you may take out

a module that way yeah it's not a good

idea you want to see it they didn't use

your scope and hook up your charger yeah

just did that in one of my classes we

hooked up the meter and the scope on a

battery charger and I showed them the

difference between an old charger we had

around and a smart charger one being

Medtronic one being associated and how

clean the new ones are it is practically

nothing you got to blow it up and that's

what you need when you program it is

actually a Pierre comment oh that really

should stand the car for voltage or

network codes when you're tracing down

problems because of those types of

issues or something in the charge system

is

no doubt and that's why it is that that

test of checking AC voltage it's one of

our normal tests so I think we're ready

to move over here to the next now next

we're gonna move into is going to build

on what we just learned doing all this

battery charging system stuff and no

extra special hookup I don't have to do

an extra special hookup we are still in

the same place we were but if you guys

remember when we were looking at the in

either the voltage line or the current

trace we could see the impact of the

civil to each cylinder as it was moving

through compression not for long because

the engine quickly started so somebody

some tech got the bright idea to just

watch it while it was running

because of that relationship and that's

how a lot of things get started in our

business isn't it right so I goes like I

wonder what would happen if and and they

come up with this testing method then

now it's it's common knowledge so we're

gonna just rearrange here we're gonna go

ahead and just take the voltage out of

the equation for a minute we'll turn

that channel off we're going to leave

everything what way it was the trigger

settings everything the way it was let's

see and we're setting it up and now what

we're gonna do is we're gonna perform

the relative compression test by looking

at the current being demanded by the

starter motor and that's going to be

directly linked to what kind of work

it's trying to do it just makes common

sense that the cylinder is working the

way it should it's gonna take more than

to turn similar through it's not working

the way it should

right and this is an important first

step to check the engine I was at a

hundred percent accurate no one what do

I mean by that there are certain

vehicles that you're gonna come across

that may have a variable valve timing or

some sort of a camshaft issue that this

won't pick up but nor will a regular

compression gauge right and then you

would get into the stuff that we're not

talking about that I yeah will

transduces thumps they keep in mind you

know that when we're doing this is that

we're looking for that anomaly we're

looking that that weak soldiers show up

and we'll look at that too but listen

we're talking and we'll go crank it so

in this vehicle we can hold up the

throttle wide open which we want to do

anyway pull the throttle wide open I

thought John Thornton said this very

clearly at the big event I loved what he

said if you're gonna do a test like this

perform it the same way on every vehicle

in either case just like you would do a

compression test why don't travel yeah

are there some models where the throttle

blades not going to move because there's

a tronic final assembly yes but does

that matter no do the test same way

every single time you take that variable

out of the equation John Thornton thank

you so much for that it's not that great

advice and another little note not every

car has clear flood right anything over

8,500 and one pounds here in the u.s. is

not obd2 compliant even though it has an

OB d log if it's over 8501 you will not

have clear flood and not every vehicle

even under 8501 has clear flood so you

may have to disable fuel always disable

fuel not ignition yep absolutely they

still have a fuel so you don't wash down

the sellers in the process so yep she's

ready whenever you're ready

well start over gotta wait for the cycle

That's not me this is new cars dude it's

alright go ahead

here we go my bad

all right

you know you have to turn the amp clamp

on that's a good thing to remember is

this a time-out on this one this one

this this new Pico clamp that they

supplied for us for this evening it will

automatically shut off so you don't wear

the battery down so I had to resend

that's a good thing because I could tell

you yeah you know you wear it down ready

what's like that's somebody got

everything right and by the way you're

going to you know you're gonna learn all

the little problems that you may

encounter maybe you don't have this you

have the old-style amp clamp always keep

an extra 9-volt battery around 9-volt

batteries tend to dip and they will

change your readings so that's something

that you need to look at and again zero

it with the jaw closed next to where are

you going to connect to and as Pete

mentioned earlier go around all the

negative wires or if you're on the

positive side all the positive wires

make sure the arrow is facing in the

right way that way we're getting a right

reading I think we're okay all right

let's try it

nope no

and again the real world when things

just don't go right this is gonna happen

in a shop you say well brother

so any questions while we're waiting

Pete's making some adjustments on a

scope and usually you know when we had

it on before if I gets the clamp didn't

turn off when you were doing your

starter test all you needed to do was

continue to crank it and we would have

the same reading we would add more of

those humps but we trigger in on that

channel Pete maybe you were trigger in

on channel a channel right

maybe I'm issue with my old old old

laptop here ah and by the way that's a

another thing sometimes you don't need

the latest greatest laptop but you do

need one that'll function properly

Pierre knows that Pierre has gone with

some aggravation on some of his older

laptops we cycle laptops here out

probably about every three four years

Dave about at it so you know if you're

gonna get one make sure it has some good

memory in it and that it functions

properly all right hit it

yeah all right I think we're ready there

we go

- for slaughters nothing I can do oh you

lost it I lost it hey one more time here

we go all right you got it on single

there we go all right hey we got it

it only took the five minutes late

sometimes it's operator error said hey

Pete it's the real world this is what

everyone's gonna learn yeah I hope so

it happens anyway again you can see what

we already discussed we got the inrush

current that's that high peak that we

talked about earlier we know it's

picking up speed and this is what we're

focusing on though is the part once it's

stable and what we want is these Peaks

to all be uniformed if we see one that's

lower than the others then that's a

problem that's the one we want to focus

on or higher jumps up anything that's an

anomaly is gonna be an issue right up

something by that's a great question the

question is is 30-amp peak to peak in

other words from bottom to top is that

the limit no I don't I'm gonna steer

that's not true here's what what I've

seen I've seen an encoded in fact I

believe this is mr. Thornton was in the

50 amp range range typically which

you'll find though is that in this point

with what I mentioned if you have a

situation say a timing chain or belt

it's that slipped to the timings been

for some reason you're gonna

see effect on compression aren't you and

you're gonna see it across all of the

cylinders so the pattern is going to

look initially it's gonna look fine but

if you're doing this on every car that

comes in and again to be good if you did

the battery charging system test how

much longer would it take for you to

real quickly grab a relative compression

on that same vehicle and you see these

Peaks all and then all of a sudden you

see one that's switched up alright this

and this is not good this is not gonna

take long to view no not at all so today

it's a question no I would not use that

30 amp peak the peak is that's not the

max

more than that but if I do see something

getting low and I have a drivability

problem I'm gonna be looking at you can

investigate a little deeper yes

absolutely it's a good quick check that

you should do on every drivability issue

and if you're just chest check in as

we're doing here the battery installer

it really is just cranking it longer and

freezing it yeah take it off the voltage

Channel blow this up if you need to blow

it up and most scopes have that feature

when you can blow it up and start to

pick the pepper out of the frydo

which we have an example of on the

screen glad you're there I do not the

question is is there a minimum range for

that peak to peak I do not have an

answer for you it's been my experience

that if I have a drivability issue and I

see it low then as ji said I'm gonna go

dig deeper into the issue if I have no

drivability issue and I see it loads

then I'm gonna think that's probably

okay right you know because I'm not

dealing with any other symptoms this is

its this is relative that's the name of

the test it's relative to all the other

cylinders and it's relative to that

engine and it's not a hundred percent

accurate on every one of them right but

it's a good 80 something percent and

what I mean by that because we're

dealing with a lot of variable valve

timing cars and and issues with

different camshafts timing chains you

really got to know the motor you're

working on right and you know what I

liked years back I bought the aes wav

file actually George sent me his das

version originally and I save stuff on

das and had all these Pico you could say

then you could save and snap on you can

save in 80s you could save it all these

save them do them and that way you can

compare and get better if you know

you're working on a 3.2 liter or 5 liter

or 5:7 whatever the case may be

take it save it and go back and review

hey that car had no problem

yeah this one looks a little different

than the 5 I did that's a fantastic glad

you brought that up

most of these tools now they're pc-based

like she said use it you know easy for

you to save the files but the question

my problem was organizing them I'm gonna

refer you back to my rings comm punt put

in Eric Ziggler's name uses him one of

our contributors he's also a nationally

recognized trainer he wrote a great

article for us on how to organize your

data so that you can find it again when

you want to grab hold of it and as

you've mentioned yes you can do a listen

every car that comes in save the data

start building up that library save that

information make those files now back to

the rails compression test here's what

you're really looking for

you got a customers come in it's got a

misfire maybe it's not sending a code

but you can feel it in the city of your

pants one of your concerns is it's a

tension mechanical right and to do a

compression test traditional oppression

test on a modern engine especially any

kind of knee design that's a big money

big time yeah I've seen flat rate times

as high as three hours to do it compares

versus B 6 how are you gonna go to your

customer and say one see my hundred

dollars an hour three hours mr. Custer

or his customer I suspect you have an

issue with one of the cylinders I'm not

sure which one I need to do a

compression test to figure that out may

not be the problem but I need to perform

this test it's gonna cost you $300 just

me to perform the test may not fix your

car but they'll tell me where I need to

go what do you think your customers

gonna tell you mmm go somewhere yeah no

I'm not doing that so if I perform this

test and I see something like you're

seeing here in the screen well we have

one that's lower than the rest now I

have a strong suspicion that yes there

is definitely a problem now I can go

back to that customer with some kind of

verification saying I know there's a

problem

but we need to more in-depth testing to

figure it out and now I can justify that

expense and and let's say if you were

working on a Ford with the IDS or you're

working with Toyota tech stream on a

Toyota or Lexus car guess what they have

been built in their scandal but you may

not own those tools yeah but you do have

a scope and that's what we're here for

so we do relative compression on every

drivability problem that comes oh yeah

me too we do it all the time now like I

said we know 85% of the time because we

get

a lot of new cars that new 15% you're

gonna have to do a different way it's

still good to do a quick eyeball of it

but you may not pick everything up

absolutely now question is we saw that

low valley but we don't know which

cylinder is where is it we can see the

forest but we don't know where we're at

in the middle of the forest so one other

scope technique that you want to add to

your arsenal is the use of a reference

signal

it's that signal that tells you where

you are in the forest and foremost

engine parameters the best one to use is

ignition correct so what you're seeing

here is we how we've added a reference

to that and that's just an ignition

source it could be a secondary or

primary some even you still have the

inductive pickup that you can use around

the course we don't see many more plug

wires anymore now but you want to add a

reference all we're doing here is is

picking a cylinder I don't care which

one it is take the ones easiest to get

to right and just count them the fire in

order to show you the firing order right

now we're gonna show you that a moment

but because we're on an ignition signal

here I want to say a quick word about

this attenuation no doubt every scope

has a limit as to what you can pump into

it right just like your meter does you

want to know what that limit is on your

tool we raise this up especially when it

comes to looking at ignition because at

least for me China I'm sure the best way

to look at the ignition system and we'll

do that is to go to the primary side of

the ignition because everybody's using

coil on plug right exactly so it's a lot

easier to tap in that I'm gonna see the

same things I want to see in the pattern

but it's easier to tap into primary

however again this goes about that

foundation stuff we talked about your

electrical foundation comes into play

when you're using a scope comes into a

great plate and one of the things if

your foundation solid is that you'll

understand the way that coil works we

know every I think everybody can tell me

that I'm going to put current through

the primary and I'm gonna turn it off

because I'm gonna build this magnetic

field

turn it off and then they feel collapses

that energizes the secondary that steps

up the voltage and that fires a plug

that's that's the big transformer

tranzact lee it's a it's a traceable

explanation but what happens after

plug fires and that magnetic field

collapses well that Energy's got to go

somewhere it goes right back into the

primary windings and does the same thing

it creates a voltage spike there and

that can get up pretty high on some of

these coils higher than what maybe your

scope can handle so every scope out

there has some method of attenuating or

reducing this input signal to a level

your scope can handle in this case this

is the Pico ten to one attenuator all

that means is for every 10 volts going

in one volts coming out right right and

and then the pico scope I can select the

menu item I can telescope I got an

attenuator in there and it's going to

automatically set the scaling for me I'm

still gonna get a real-time measurement

of what the voltage level is it's just

gonna be adjusted automatically for me

if not you have to do that yourself it's

a resistance that that cuts down the

voltage right all right so we got the

known bad again we're looking at the

firing order how to use the firing order

for that just happen to trigger the same

solar has had the issue so we got right

on to it but again for was up front on

this particular vehicle ones buried in

the back so I'm not gonna try to dig out

one five six and one two three four yep

there you go so it doesn't matter which

one you pick right so I'm gonna hold off

on a during the firing line to the live

one for the time being because we gonna

look at primary ignition all by itself

in a moment I'll move on to this next

item here because I want to show

everybody that you don't need an amp

plant to perform the relative

compression test if you go back to where

we started with the battery charging

system test you remember we saw voltage

dropped right we saw the same little

humps there because again if there's

more load on the starter there's more

voltage drop if there's less there's

less and we can see that in the voltage

line just as easily as we could on the

current line so again if you're starting

off you got that little pocket one

channel you can still perform a relative

compression test but we have to do what

AC coupling oh yeah so be just like

metal thing going on

I can do it on most goes I can do it

like with the Pico the Pico I gotta give

them credit they have the power that I

can actually zoom in on those lives like

you see it the way I want to see it and

I can adjust it so I'll see it the way I

wanna see it but if you're using any

other scope this is where a c-cup that

comes into play because when I'm focused

on what am i focus on I'm just looking

at the peaks and valleys or the uniform

like care what they measure exact I

don't care now so listen and and we

haven't tried that yet on this one so

let's let's go take that voltage channel

that we've been playing with we're gonna

put AC coupling on it we're gonna bring

it back down and we'll run that relative

you're gonna run the amp clamp on it too

so you can see both of them are you

gonna run them off yeah no we can do

that I guess that's it

kill a couple of birds with one stone so

we'll bring that up quick note why I'm

getting it all this back together again

time base we talked about the time base

and we talked about the 20 20 rule

obviously the answer is cranking over

more than once so I've changed the time

base we're running at 500 milliseconds

half a second per division which would

give us five second five second across

the screen right so that's the reason

for that all right so we do a double

check I'm going to keep the same trigger

because since we got the current still

in there I put AC coupling on for the

voltage but now I'm not looking at a 20

volt range anymore am i because I'm not

I'm not focused on how much mulches I'm

measuring and I don't care if the peak

goes off the screen I'm gonna see what

happens after it stabilizes and I get

that that the peaks and valleys that's

what I want to look at so let's see what

that does this will be new for me be

giggles for me tonight okay again the

question came up is what is AC coupling

we talked a little bit about that

earlier every voltage signal has a DC

what's called a DC component that's what

you see when your meter set on DC that's

the 12 volts to 14 volts that you're

saying on your screen but there's AC

riding on that signal that's like

typically when it comes to looking in

alternators you're looking into

functions of diodes if you think about

how alternator works its producing

AC voltage is producing first positive

than negative and we've all remember the

sine wave from back in old math class in

school and that's what you're getting

out but we can't use that in the

vehicles DC electrical system so we have

to have some way to rectify that to clip

that off and just take the tops off so

we have DC coming out that's what the

diode packs supposed to do when it fails

it starts to allow too much a see

through so AC coupling is just a way to

remove the digital the DC current the DC

element out of the signal and leave the

AC behind okay so I hope that clarifies

that and just again some information in

the handout all right so ready not quite

yet and all your scopes you'll see where

it says DC just switch it to AC here we

go

all right good

right now I've got again you see the

voltage drop and is this almost like a

mirror image in it okay I see that this

is like a mirror image of the two

patterns the only difference here if I'm

looking at voltage I have to keep in

mind that it is inverted if I really

want to see the piece I've got to turn

the other turn of the opposite way so

you can either invert the string with

the menu functions or just switch them

to which your leads yeah just switch the

leads on your on your meter all right

yeah you switch it on the scope and

it'll read the exact way this way it

looks like you just fits in to each

other yeah but something is the same

thing we're seeing the exact same thing

and you know a good thing to do when you

want to try this you want to become

proficient at it this is not and I get a

lot of people that ask me this oh I

tried that and it didn't pick up a bad

coil or or inject them this is not for

that this is for engine mechanical so if

you took out a spark plug disabled fuel

disable spark then tried it you would

see the problem mm-hm and then will

start believing in the process you make

a little leak in the motor mechanical if

you can take a valve cover off and you

know adjust the valve make it loose

rather than then work and fully you

would see this issue yeah now again

certain minut things where a valve is

just closing a little bit you're gonna

have a problem with most of the cars

this is gonna be helpful information

super helpful all right on to the next

now again here you're looking at a image

on the presentation slides the blue it's

just like you saw here this is the in

this particular case was the starter

current like we used to and then the

other two are just inverted voltage one

is taken at a breakout box at the

diagnostic link connector so I didn't

even have to get out of the truck it's a

lazy man's way and then the other is

we're doing here is right there at the

battery so I just wanna stress again

that we can see the same thing you can

see the same thing

and again we're still hooked up the same

place we hooked up to do the battery

charging system to us if you're doing

the Bob the breakout box like this AES

one you're in pin sixteen which is power

that is into the obd2 connector pin four

is chassis ground and again you're clear

flooding it and bing up you're doing the

exact same thing and like Pete said if

you want to reverse the leads start a

match up rather than switching you

channel reverse whatever floats your

boat it's all good again just to point

out because of the the goodwill and

support the Pico showed us I do want to

point out that they do have a relative

compression built test built it not only

into their guided menu but in the

diagnostic suite as well now this is

showing up as a bar graph the way it

works on the Pico though is that it's

going to go by the strongest cylinder

not necessarily in fine well it's gonna

go by the strongest silicon first and

then the rest in firing order it really

doesn't help us identify which one it is

but again it's very quick this is doing

the same thing we just did it's looking

the same thing we just did on the

voltage side of the battery but uses a

software to provide you this graph so

it's a little more eye candy which is

nice ya get something I can take to the

customer and say mister customers see

this particular bar is yellow when slow

it goes yellow or I think it goes red

when it goes way on them and now this is

the reason I need to go in deeper to

solve this problem right very quickly

few notes and some additional tools as

we mentioned get a good foundation but

there's so many things that you can test

with the scope with these accessories

for example you're looking at vacuum

sensors you're looking at pressure

vacuum transducers all of these things

that are available to help you in

drivability Diagnostics but before you I

want to before you make that in that

kind of investment into your tooling you

know make sure you're comfortable with

the basic scope and I know you I've seen

that before you could make this up in

fact I guess what hope it's on a little

YouTube video this is a nine volt

battery in this project box with a nine

volt to 5 volt 9 volt the 5 volt

regulator and here's a GM map sensor a

vacuum hose and you want to cut this

hose shorter okay

the shorter the better so we don't lose

it you ground your scope to the black

lead here you put the red one on the

signal wire of your scope here this

becomes a vacuum transducer yeah it's an

easy way for you to get into using

transducers probably this whole thing

with everything you see here maybe 50 60

bucks what a good GM Maps up yeah or by

all the rest of the stuff they have

alright next thing I want to go into are

you guys watching remember the old days

of the strobe the timing light you know

we just have marks on the on the

harmonic balancer and we get the timing

light out and we hooked it up to the

coil wire and distributor and we could

check in adjust timing back in the day

now there's no marks there's no

adjustments the computer takes care of

all that but can base timings still be

an issue you bet yeah of course it can

so how are you gonna check that there's

no I don't think of any other way you

can check that except with the use of a

scope and all we're doing is going back

to what we've already done we originally

had the relative compression test that

we did we had our reference that

ignition event but think about a minute

when does that event occurred just

before top dead center so if I start

looking at the pattern does it make

sense that that current demand that peak

is gonna happen right at the the most

difficult moment of that piston reaching

top dead center just before transitions

so that's going to be pretty close to

TDC right and then I'm looking at the

firing line the reference that I have

for the ignition

if it's right there at the peak or very

very close to that peak probably good

bed ignition time he's okay correct

right if there's something out of whack

if there's a cam out of sync timing

belt's jumped I'm gonna see that shift

usually to the left right because it's

retards to the left bands to the right

and if and it would be noticeable

because that you're looking at least 10

degrees shift that's gonna make quite a

difference that you'll be able to see

once again with your scope yeah makes

life a lot easier if you start using us

yeah you really want to get into it

again this where you get a deeper we're

like at the instant

pressure stuff showing that when the

ignitions event occurs when the

injection event occurs the whole all the

information need to know about to help

that motor is right nishan injection and

your pressure Peaks alright on to number

six we're not gonna do this on the live

vehicle but I did want to mention this

because again this this comes into play

even more so now camp cranks Inc we used

to use that for timing checks right a

bit yep

but I got to point out here and I want

you to make a note of this you can't

just look at the pattern and figure out

where they're supposed to line up you

have to have unknown good how you gonna

get it known good well number one you

start building your own database you

keep hook up to known good and you saved

the data and you put that in the books

but now you guys are lucky I mean now

you have so many sources you can go to

to get known good patterns I see guys

all the time reaching out on again on

these facebook social Facebook groups

saying hey guys I need a good known

known good of XYZ next you know if

somebody crossed the other side of the

country goes hey no problem up here's

the file and and we've actually had one

of our contributors Brandon Steckler

actually wrote a story for us about such

an instance where he and some other Jeff

helping a guy across the pond in England

and I think he was the same guy that

showed up at your Yeti event that's

right so I mean this goes to show it's

not just helping each other in the

neighborhood I mean you guys are

reaching around the world sometimes you

guys who were who signed up from other

countries thank you so much thank you I

don't know how to say like you know all

the different languages hello goodbye oh

hey well we won't try that we say down

south hey how you doing yes we have

another I'd like to add that you should

probably try to hook the scan tool up

and see what it's recording is as the

cam advance

reported fit just to make sure your

variable valve timing isn't different

between your good that's a very good

point that Pierre brings up especially

with variable valve timing or the old

vaneau systems right you want to know

the scan tool data can tell us hey the

timing is being advanced or

then that's gonna change what we're

looking at here absolutely but if not if

everything's hunky-dory then a lot of

times they don't do anything at idle you

can get yourself a good palate and on

many engines now you've got more than

one right so these channels on your

scope come to play I can look at a

variety of cam sensor signals versus the

crank and then if I want to take the

scan tool and command the vbt one

direction the other what you think is

gonna happen to you capture on your

screen it's gonna move see it shift so I

don't really need to know I'm good for

that particular case I can see it moving

and I can also with a little little

talent and a little time tell exactly

how much it moved a lot of these scopes

now have the ability to place rulers out

that will break it up into degrees if

you can identify right the whole 720

revolution which you know again if you

start looking for commonalities in the

pattern you would be it too hard to find

that but yeah but these just again some

of the ways that you can use your your

tool - and we have one we just did on a

Corvette a 1992 Corvette with the

optical distributor where we had to do

the cam and crank sync and the vehicle

was dropping out that's what helped us

find the problem so it's something you

really can use I mean optical

descriptors are pretty old but you can

use it on any crank sensor to see if

it's dropping out right Gannon great can

something that again any scope that you

got will allow you to perform the next

test we're going to touch on remember we

tapped in the ignition is our reference

signal but now we can look at it a

little deeper and we can actually take a

look at the end of individual elements

of the pattern now I'm not even going to

begin to try to give a lesson on

ignition waveform analysis just that's a

whole topic all bye and go to Mack van

the brink you can see some of our TST

channel these the father but if you go

back there just one second to this

pattern

just real quick I'll do a real quickie

of here is the electronic clothes into

here that is dwell time that is measured

welds the amount of time that the coil

is building up before it fires that's

the firing line here's our Spock line if

our spock line has a little slope that's

good no jaggies in them as mac

Vanderburgh used to say if it's up like

this it's usually a lean condition if

it's down like that it's usually a rich

condition or close gap and if it's going

both ways then you've got some

turbulence in the end you've got a foul

that's not sealing a hundred percent

correct and your coil oscillations here

if you don't have at least a few of them

you got a problem

that's a crash course in primary we

should also say not every course coil

you're gonna hook up on coil on plug is

going to give you a primary some have

built in modules and it's controlled by

the computer you get only get a square

wave yeah now one way excuse me that we

get past some of this it reminds me of

the old quad for motors yeah where you

have the cassette or the old sobs that

you guys may be into what you can do

there is lift it up put wires in between

okay and then the wires in between then

you can use that thing that we never

really use to go onto the cognition wire

you get a secondary padded caution

caution caution make sure you got your

scope of good ground and if it needs an

int in you ater you better put it on

because you can burn your scope out if

not the complete scope a channel so that

is the warning we gave you before both

on primary and secondary most of the

time secondary will kill your scope yeah

and you have a great tool but this is

just another example of a tool that you

can use this against Pecos coil on plug

paddle other companies make similar tool

tools for the whole idea is here is that

if you have like I said you have the

where it's a contained the igniter is

actually in the coil then you can take

and place this on top of the coil and

all it's doing really is picking up on

that collapsing magnetic field so

exactly what you're seeing on your scope

and just to go back to we sing here

about the ring yes

relations that you see here what we

talked about before collapses in the

primary energizes the secondary but then

it collapses in the secondary and goes

back into the primary and that energy is

back and forth until it dissipates

that's what you're seeing there this

allows us to access this pattern the

other thing I want to show you here is

just how high or how much voltage is in

that pattern I believe this is a pure

secondary so we'll actually do it on the

truck too to show that but again it's

high enough that you gotta make sure

that you use that attenuator to protect

your scope and on snap on where you get

the stackable grounds be very very

careful that those grounds will not hit

anything and come off because without

protecting it with the ground you will

do scope damage we're ready to head on

at Earth well let's see this is adding

the coil I said yeah we're gonna go

ahead do that we're gonna show the rest

on on the car and then we'll come back

to this screen and explain what we're

talking about there so all right we'll

go ahead and reship that up a couple of

minor changes here you got to change a

couple of channels if you have your

channels hooked up you'll be able to

just switch them over and you should not

have a problem

I get the easy job I'm in this nice

comfortable brand-new truck again like

we were looking at so far with some of

the patterns we were looking at we

wanted to catch that initial whatever we

were gonna see we wanted to see that

initial in rush voltage we wanted to see

that initial in rush current and so on

I'm not too concerned about it when I'm

gonna look at an ignition or later on an

injector pattern that's gonna be

repetitive or should be so I'm not gonna

I don't have to worry about that single

trigger we're gonna just set this up as

a repeat so it'll continuously play

across the screen and on all money

scopes that will actually stack up and

record allow that data it'll give me a

lot of different screens that I can go

back and thumb through later so we're

gonna have a have that set up I've got

this actually a set on channel see

that's our green trace where I told the

scope that I'm using an attenuator so

it's gonna scale accordingly scale we're

using is bias 102 a + 400 volts will set

up a trigger we're gonna use a rising

slope will keep it the 20% range that's

second division over and let's see let's

just go with will go at 30 and see what

happens and we'll start it up alright

here we go

plugged in let me make sure the

connections are where we want them

that's they're good to go and we should

be good to go

all right now again live live webinar

what can we tell you we leave it running

for a few minutes what did I fail to

adjust I fail to bring my time setting

back to my 2020 rule so you can see what

we saw just like we said you would if

you had more time the patterns gonna

become print it's gonna compress so

rather than seeing just one capture like

I would like to they will analyze it I

need to I need to decrease the time

correct these pretty so that I can see

it better and how long does it take for

a sparkplug to jump a couple

milliseconds yep so let's just use that

we're gonna change the time for 500 it's

a 2 milliseconds per division that's

going to give us 20 milliseconds across

the stream we'll start it up again and

there we go ok now we've got something

we can look at now we've got an issue

patter we can look at you can see that

we're peeking oh goodness way up there

close to 400 volts right this dis scope

is not gonna handle 4 volts going up its

butt so I need that attenuator if I

didn't have that you could do it up and

be put on a smoke show for you tonight

and you look trying to close it if we

move this over this way rather than you

guys need some more something we're just

gonna move that over so we can see the

the dwell time that G was talking about

and there you go here we go here's or

electronic closing there's a fire line

is our spark line there's our coil

oscillations and you got primate now if

you want to make this bigger you won't

see the peak anymore but we can play

with the voltage setting and it'll make

this all look bigger now you can also do

to blow up I'm gonna play with some of

the pecos neat features here and what

actually listens adjust the scaling

which kind of like blowing it up and

then we'll bring that up to where we can

see it again and now we've just kind of

opened it up a little bit we can see

leave it better this we talked about

earlier about the whole thing of voltage

drop - I want to talk about we're

starting off what when we putting the

voltage into the primary side is going

to be running voltage wherever the

charging voltage is that's what we're

seeing coming in here

and now the computer is going to pull

that the ground destructive build up

that coil saturation that should pull

that to ground if we zoom in on that

very closely we're gonna see how much

voltage drop is in that circuit but I

want caution you any component that's

grounded through the control module is

going to have what's called a floating

ground it's gonna be offset some correct

if you really want to get an accurate

representation of that then you I would

have to go back to these the ECU's

ground and check it there but typically

and maybe half a volt seven tenths of a

volt offset is normal if I saw anything

much more than that I'd want to look at

that more closely now while that's going

on let's go ahead and add current to it

so we're just going to put another

channel on and now this is going to be a

different current probe that we're on

now this is a little lower current so

we're using a current clamp that's

specifically made for low current I've

already told the scope that's what we

want to do

there's our current probe now we need to

I was in that we'll bring that back to

normal now this is kind of a funky

looking a little capture here and if I

wasn't knowing what we were doing here

probably kind of confused me a little

bit we're just going to take the other

channel out for just a moment just so we

can see just the current so I want to

explain that bring it then we can see it

nice and easy you know more range there

there we go so notice before this

matched up with our a condition in it

our dwell time right we're actually

seeing two current events this is

another caution I want you guys to

consider so you can go anywhere in the

circuit to keep your current right I

don't like to work any harder than I

have to - the very first place I'm going

is the fuse box and that's where we are

we have a fuse jumper wire in place of

the fuse that feeds the ignition coils

and that's allowing us to see the

ignition coil demand it also feeds the

injectors so only what happened if I

swapped out the primary for the injector

and see where that shows up so let me go

get that check real quick so he's gonna

switch the primary wire that was on the

primary ignition and he's gonna go to

the negative side there's two wires that

go to the fuel injector one is gonna be

the 12 volt or a 14 plus volt side and

the other is the computer ground side

that's when he's on excuse me as he puts

that channel on you're gonna see

something happen right about here

week

to move that trigger

and if you notice something right here

as voltage goes down here's our fuel

injector patent on time from here to

here but what do you notice here on the

Purple Line as voltage went down

amperage started going up now you may go

well I don't see what I call a pintle

hump I can kind of see it there and I'm

sure if we blow it up you'll really see

it pronounced somewhere about 60 ish

percentage yeah and we actually I will

show you that a little bit more than

screening when we start talking about

using super safe but all I would really

want to share with you here is first

back to the second or the primary

mission that we were looking at is as

you pointed out if you really want to

know more about how to analyze those

there's a lot of information in that

pattern a lot more than we can cover

tonight Mack Bandhan break on the TST

YouTube channel and Jim Morton Jim

Morton on the TSD YouTube channel

both do excellent jobs of explaining how

to analyze that ignition waveform no

doubt if you hadn't shut that off yep

let's kill it the other thing I want to

point out while Jesus taking care of the

truck is again you're seeing it we have

those two current events but that's

because we're attached to a fuse it's

feeding both if you know that it's not

an issue I know that this current

pattern goes with the injector I'm

concerned about okay and that's all fine

I can focus on that the other thing I

want to point about the use of current

is that because of where I'm at I'm

looking at all the coils all the

injectors so if I suspect I having a

problem with one dropping out for

whatever reason I can bring that in

we're in your name and I can look at all

of them at the same time I can leave a

firing event or I can leave the injector

vent just as a reference to tell me

where I'm at and then I can just monitor

it I can watch it and once I see one go

away it come back to go away now I know

okay there is where I have to focus my

problem correct and we're still only

using two channels of our scope exactly

yep all right that's it easy to do

alright so we'll step back over here

another thing I want to point out this

is true of any device that uses

a coil for its operation that the

ignition coil the fuel injector an evap

purge solenoid a transmission solenoid

all of them have to rely on that

magnetic field to build up and collapse

to operate properly a key to that is how

quickly does the driver in these you

turn that on and off and that's what

we're looking at here this is the same

current pattern as some of the current

pattern what we just looked at but we're

blowing up taking the power that scope

they power that tool to see just how

long does it take to turn that driver

off and we can measure it and if we see

anything more than 100 microseconds and

that's no time at all then I could point

to a bad driver a weak driver in the ECU

that could explain why you have a weak

or no spark condition or an intermittent

spark condition because if you can't

turn it off cleanly the magnetic feels

like going to collapse like it should

and the generate energy generated and

the secondary it's not gonna be where it

should but this applies again to selling

always that there aren't closing when

they should right like in a transmission

guys I mean how many of you guys are

sending out transmission work that you

don't have to if you can go in and

verify that electrically everything is

fine which you can do with the scope

very easily current problem too and some

voltage readings yeah I can you can

definitely yeah he knows a lot of that

stuff in-house all right fuel injectors

we got the capture we look at the

voltage first again just as Dee was

talking about if you looked at this from

a voltage drop standpoint we're coming

in with source voltage whatever system

charging voltage is that's just what we

see here we the ECU pulls it to ground

can we talk about this we know that this

is being grounded through the ECU

there's a floating ground and we want to

make sure that we can check that to see

if that's being pulled down to correctly

is it clean is it being turned on clean

as a cutting off clean that's the

flyback voltage that we were talking

about just like we saw in the ignition

primary and for the same reason and we

shut something off we're gonna spike

something right and we want to make sure

it touches back to the ECU yeah whatever

see that this one here is about 80 some

odd volts that's a lot of voltage there

but then we were saying here it's just

that feel collapses in the spring is

trying to pull that pintle shut well now

we have a rod a metal moving through

that coil of wire and that's gonna

create its own little magnetic field and

its own little voltage potential that's

what you're seeing right there that's

what G is referring to that's the pintle

hump you can see that you can usually

see that the opening and closing closing

usually better on the voltage pattern

right opening better on the current

pattern but with some scopes you can see

them both in either one but here very

clear we can see that that's happening

where's that going to come into play for

you though if you don't see it maybe

that's something clogged that's stuck

maybe it's stuck it's not operating

mechanically can be fine electrically

but not operate mechanically or if you

have an intermittent problem again if

you watch this and you see that bump

moving up and down come and go you know

you have a mechanical issue that

injector same with the opening side you

can look at it there too you know one

other thing I want to mention here again

this is signature of a fuel injector

meaning we see the high voltage going

down and so on

not every inject is going to look the

same some of these may get pulled down

to ground and then float up like this

they may be on an angle yeah depends on

the manufacturer so again that's why

it's good to build ball library right

never mind if you get into Gd I won't

look anything like this okay because

that's a different bolt right well some

GDI injectors are still conventionally

driven right as as Chris pointed out at

your having event yeah and but there are

the newer ones there a piezoelectric

piezoelectric there you're gonna get a

pattern from that but it's gonna be

totally different because of the way

they operate right all right now we're

just adding the current you can see the

pintle opening very clearly in this

particular current pattern okay you get

to see shuttle right right there and

really nice and again voltage goes down

amperage thuds building up gets to a

peak and you know these usually pull

somewhere about 900 to 1.2 amps or 1200

milliamps so you don't really pull more

than that unless you got a problem yeah

and you get a pull a computer drive

around how can I find out if I go to my

service information they love talking

about static resistance to us welcome so

I can go look up the resistance figure

fight and Jack do and dueling

doing Ohm's law calculation and I should

know what type of current to expect but

again and I think we should I think it's

worth going to take a look at I'm just

gonna ask you to run this one more time

and all we're gonna do is we're going to

keep the the current up and wherever

we're on

all right

let's see we're not going to understand

on four easy

all right you can shut up

oh we go way back to where we started

off time and voltage all I did was I

went from at two milliseconds per

division to 500 milliseconds per

division Pickett fan thing I got the

picket fence in there let's let's see if

we can I'm not gonna rerun it again by

just in time we're just gonna kind of

cheat here and we're just gonna use some

of the zoom function of the scope to

open that up let's open it up a little

bit more and what I want you to notice

here yes I know that I'm on the fuse

that feeds both the ignition coils and

the fuel injectors which is why I'm

saying the high ones are for the

ignition the small ones right behind it

that's the injector or the injectors but

what I'm looking at is I'm looking at

all of them now right this is the

uniform of this right I can see are Zoe

is it uniform is anything higher or

lower than the others which would

indicate an electrical problem why

because currents can directly relate to

voltage and resistance right I know the

voltage is constant something of the

change in resistance if I got a

background if I got something going on

in that circuit maybe it's something in

the component whatever the case might be

that's gonna be that really quick flag

that says hey that's not right Brett

that stands out

Oh Kerry good any other questions any

questions so far any more okay we have

that done with a little fuse but I want

to show these because these are actually

no you don't did you bring all that

around oh you want to see that okay this

is actually a kit that G has I'm not

sure exactly where he gets it from but

it's kind of similar to the test lead

kit well we have terminal lens that we

can select from that it will match the

pins these are really teeny micro fuses

and that attach a perfume inline fuse so

we're still protecting the circuit but

now we have a loop that we can place our

amp clamp around

I think that's a Mac kid or whatever

have so many different gets but a EES

wave sells them world well we have in

their hand let me show will show you

what we got my hand here very happy with

my what we call the fuse buddies and you

can see we have different ones this is

for the the Jay case fuses we just

remove the fuse and start this and we

insert the fuse we took out right in

there and huh we're protected and then

of course we got the big maxi maxi two

reviews that's the big pull on you know

and then it's are they're available in

different sizes yeah we the certainties

right and there's just fuse buddies and

then you just like said whatever fuse or

you remove you just stick it in there

and you're still protecting the circuit

and then you're wrapping up clamp around

that you're all good to go so good any

other questions Pierre right if you

don't have one and you have an you're

lucky winner of the Tesla kit then you

may get one that's right now you just

need the fuse right the inline fuse

holder or again go to AES wave calm and

yeah absolutely

yeah the folks here they come up with

all kinds of good sound George and

Carlos have good stuff alright number

nine not gonna perform this test today I

think that I'm willing to bet that most

everybody's watching is familiar with

the concept of the fuel pump current

ramp again if not boy I got ton of

information on a sixty or a bar it's in

your handout but I wanted to stress here

with this is not just fuel pumps but

electric motors in general just like the

starter motor current is going to be

impacted not only by the electrical

condition but the work that we're asking

that motor to perform correct where does

this come into play if I have a fuel

pump that's pumping air then there's no

resistance internally in the pump is

there so is it gonna take a lot of

current to make that pump spin you know

no very little

I'll see that here if I have a

restriction like water that's clogged

I'll see that current higher than normal

because some bumps working harder and

now so many filters are in that module

in the tank and some are have more than

one right and they can get clogged up

when people run low

right what is number 10 where's the

number top 10 test is a test that you

come up with it's the use of your own

imagination applying the scope and what

you've learned all kinds of things come

into mind scopes are great for example

for if-then kind of testing if you see

this signal being sent by the ECM

do you see the control unit component

coming on the way it's supposed to

that's just one example share a real

quick story for you

I had a Chrysler product secondary air

injection which they don't have in the

federal states this with the California

cars ended up in Florida and it was

setting codes for a restriction I use

the scope to look at the floor motor and

the sensor that was used to to feedback

so I could see what was going on long

story short it helped me find a

restriction on the in the ports in the

engine and you know I had restrictions

in the ports in the engine because there

were no ports in the engine

someone had replaced the head when the

federal head that didn't have the

passageways built dead well that'll give

you a problem and the other thing nice

thing and I think we've hopefully shown

you tonight is that there's so many

tests that you can inform that required

very little invasive treatment we didn't

have to pull things apart we didn't have

to take time not a lot of gadgets right

and an AM clamp you should really get

yeah again if you own a pico kit they

come with them so yeah I'm sure I was

having you have it we know with with

your with your meter but anyway if

there's no other questions and again

you're gonna make you know give yourself

some time and patience work in with a

scope like anything practice makes

perfect review to video because other

videos on the motor a channel on the TST

channel on other channels that are out

there review it go over it go over to

handout and start using it make it part

of your daily routine yeah now I know

some is you know the boss has you doing

a timing chain or

tires or brakes or whatever but maybe at

lunch time or break time take a few

minutes and you will get good at this

right this is the future you know so

everything out there's electronic now

right now you know tomorrow I do a

hybrid class and we'll be using the lab

scope to check the motor windings to

check some other functions on a hybrid

vehicle or electric vehicle so you could

go as he has here you could fly and and

think up a million different things to

to deal with a lot of the stuff that we

talked about terms of testing techniques

the fuel pump current pattern comes to

mind it's been around four plus years

you know I guess macaws first started

playing with the old flute meters and

stuff yeah but somebody somewhere asked

themselves what would happen if and that

test was born and today even modern day

now in silver pressure testing pressure

waveform the house somebody somebody

created the map sensor for the very

first time like you just shared and then

they got around the circle we all shared

that information with the other decks

exactly I had one in my toolbox okay so

I thought that years back I also had the

PV 500 they don't make that anymore

right

PV 350 I believe is the little one that

fluke made as a pressure transducer but

we first got introduced to them on the

big box scopes right right if you guys

had that you went what the hell is this

thing you put this contraption to the

boom and it was a pressure transducer

going on your fuel realm and by the way

doesn't Ford Motor Company and Jaguar

and Land Rover don't they use of

pressure transducer rather than a

personal regulator and some of their

software like the Terra dying software

yeah gives us actual each fuel injector

the full of the fuel volume on each one

would can drop you could do that if you

really think about it with a pressure

transducer yeah and then signal off of

number one ignition

so you have the fire node or anywhere

and if it's one three four two and you

pick number four then it's going to go

to one three you can figure it out not

all that hard

so now we got this part done

if there are further questions is time

to pick a winner oh the winner and if

you've been in past webinars you've

known that what you said the Box we had

travel tickets and stuff to many people

so many of you guys signed up for this

webcast that's too much so we're going

high-tech so let me go grab the

high-tech device high-tech electronic so

the the high-tech device is gonna be an

app there's an app for everything

all right everything so just we're all

up in a board here we've already been

making sure this works okay this is a

random number generator and it's

parameters are set to the number of

people who registered for tonight's

webcast so entirely random had nothing

to do with it will push the magic button

number 314 well is our winner who is

number 314 I'll tell you give me one

second 30:14 pull up that big old

spreadsheet so the fan 3 over look look

on the spreadsheet of everyone that

signed up I believe we had over 1200

people sign up on this so we'll see who

314 and our winner is

the one headward davis from Skokie

Illinois we will be sending an email out

to you probably tomorrow morning letting

you know that you're the winner and pìkô

will dropship you directly your premium

Lee KITT I think we highlight my pickup

is the online if you're online let us

know yeah if you're online tell us about

it Louie - you get that I'm jealous

it's a great kit so alright so once

again we knock the noble one out we did

and I want to thank everybody who took

the time to watch tonight with us keep

the live event thank you very much for

doing so and it can be tough on a

weeknight to come out and do things like

this I hope you found it worth your time

and I hope that you'll join us again in

August when we get to say that and we

have an ATIS one coming up coming up

with a

he's in this for years but he's really

doing a bunch of this but he's didn't

provide us his perspective as a guy

who's actually doing this every single

day out in the field to give us some of

his ideas and what you can expect when

you're having to deal with the systems

in your shop

so until then good night