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How Is Someone Saved? (Mormons vs Christians)

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repentance is what you said right how do

you go how does that happen

what's the process by which someone said

dead sinner has raised life in Jesus

it's finished

Colonel I'm just giving you in the no

one here we don't want to say because I

agree it's repentance but it says in 2nd

Timothy 2:24 that God grants repentance

it's a gift the call of the gospel is

that Jesus Christ is God some of the

flesh he's the eternal God he's Yahweh

is the Messiah he lived righteously died

for sinners and rose again from the dead

and the command to every one man woman

and child is to repent Italy's the

gospel that's the message he doesn't say

wait for faith or wait for me to open

your eyes he says come to me and he

grants that and that people

sure yeah that message the message of

the justification by faith how you and I

are made righteous before God it's not

my faith together it's purely by the

grace of God so that no one is most and

I've given you guys several texts and

demonstrate that it's only by faith

it says in Romans chapter 4 that God

justifies the ungodly person so he

justifies the ungodly he chases down

rebels right to the one who works his

wages you guys have you guys have a job

yeah ok so what do you get when you have

a job at the end of the two-week period

but you get a paycheck right no if you

went into your boss and you said to your

boss thank you so much for that gift

that you've given me he would be like

wait a second that's not a gift you work

to earn that paycheck right it's not a

gift you earn that Romans chapter 4 says

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the wages of sin is death right I'm

sorry that's Romans chapter 3 so Romans

chapter 4 right to the one who works his

wages what he's earned you guys get

awake right what he's earned it's not

credit as a gift it's not credited as a

gift right as what is due but as suits

do now but is the important part you

guys gotta hear this last part but to

the one who does not work but believes

on him who justifies the ungodly his

faith is credited as righteousness

well back in Romans in Romans 2:28 verse

12 each man will be judged according to

their works

Romans chapter 22 the Romans doesn't

have 20 no no sorry revelations I'm

Dyslexic so Revelation is 2012 and then

at the end it says we judged out of

those things according to their works so

if we're judged according to our works

why wouldn't say we were judged

according to our faith we were judged

according to the things that we work we

live work us through

what's the texture pointing to

revelation 20:12 I would say that the

works that we demonstrated are obviously

the fruit right so Jesus says no bad

tree can produce good fruit and vice

versa right so the works that we do in

the flesh though the works of our hands

the worst that we do they're a product

of whether our hearts been changed or

not

now obviously I'd want to look at that

first two and see maybe exactly what

you're what you're referring to has that

passed and revelations money I know John

so mine is there's a there's a book of

life in the text and those who are in

the book of life are given eternal life

and those who are judged according to

their works death and Hades receives

receives death and Hades spits up and

they go into the lake of fire judged by

their works anybody who isn't in Christ

has to answer to God for all of their

unrighteousness their sins but for those

who were in Christ you have what Paul

says in Philippians 3 Philippians 3 the

Apostle Paul says about his life he says

according to the law I was a Pharisee he

says according to the law blameless and

he says he says and I he says but all of

this I count as loss all my good deeds

all my works all being circumsized of

the tribe of Benjamin a Pharisee he says

I counted all his lost lost skubalon

which is actually a pretty thick strong

word in the Greek it actually is the

strong it's essentially a way of saying

crap the worst side of that right

he's the counter dollz skubalon he says

and I want to be found in him not having

a righteousness of my own derived from

the law but the one that comes from God

through faith in Jesus he said that

through faith in Christ you receive a

righteousness that's not your own he

didn't want his good deeds or his

righteousness to even be before the

throne of God he wanted the one that

came as a gift in Christ through faith

alone

that's what Paul says all believers have

is Christ's righteousness and I think

that's the big distinction between the

Jesus and the gospel of this church

the true gospel is that we're saying

that the righteousness that we all stand

before God in is only Christ and it's a

gift we don't stand before God with our

quote unquote right righteousness

because all's that our righteousness is

as filthy rags because we're because God

is so holy since we are scarlet they'll

be at widest no yes there's forgiveness

and God yes but we can't do it by

ourselves right so that the the problem

is is that the way the Bible says the

grace it says you were dead in your sins

and trespasses Ephesians chapter two you

were dead in your sins and trespasses

and he says but God made you alive

that's something God did God made you

alive by grace you've been saved so the

difference is is this church is teaching

you that if you cooperate with God His

grace and do enough good deeds of

righteousness that God will accept you

the Bible says you're dead in your sins

and trespasses dead not sick

dead God by His grace must make you

alive and then he says this by grace

you've been saved through faith and that

the Grace in the faith not of yourselves

it's the gift of God not according to

works lest any man should boast

not according to works if it was up to

us and our righteousness in any way even

with grace then we have something to

boast in but Paul says but not before

God he said go ahead if you look in our

scriptures they've been accounts of

people who have boasted there would be

think it's around 3rd Nephi towards the

end of Alma it says how the Nephites who

used to be the righteous ones they were

boasting of their actions and because of

them the ones who were boasted in the

first company of Christ

I mean when

there Christ died that's nice

they're all wiped boasters were liked

and it was people who were lowly and

meek and heart who were saved

mm-hmm so if we you're right if we do

boast we won't be saved

well no but the context of Paul there I

got here what you're saying

but believe me I hear the context I

understand what you're saying but Paul's

context in Ephesians 2 is that by grace

you've been saved through faith and that

the Grace and the faith not of

yourselves it's the gift of God not

according to works lest any man should

boast he says essentially that if you're

saying that your your works in any way

have something to do with that then you

have something to boast about

so Bible says the grace and the faith

are gifts of God this church is teaching

you that through obedience to the laws

and ordinances of the gospel you can be

saved okay that's a different gospel so

do you believe that Jesus would invite

us to be perfect God commands us to be

perfect in order to try to become my

Christ that requires action we can't

just wish and have faith that we should

become like Christ we have to use action

and I think that's where we're

disagreeing is that action we both agree

that action isn't enough

but it's where it's why it's a good

thing that is enough because that's

where Jesus Christ grace comes so that's

that's the point the difference is how

you just put that my friend

you said actions and then there's grace

right because that's what Nephi says by

grace you've been saved after all you

can do the Bible teaches

it's the grace of God that brings people

to life that gives them faith that gives

them repentance that saves them the

actions come later here's one

misconception that's often spread

amongst more ya know Christian in

history believes that through faith just

saying you believe saves you it's true

faith in Christ that saves you and if

you've been given faith by God to trust

in Christ that means you have a new

nature and the good works flow from that

every Christian for all of these 2000

years has always believed that true

faith in Christ produces good works but

those works have nothing to do with my

justification before God they're only a

fruit of it and I don't want God to even

look at them as a basis of my

righteousness I only want Christ I only

want his life I only want his death for

me and that's the difference we're gonna

stand before God with our life of sin

our lust our addiction to pornography

our lies our thefts our envy our strife

our hatred we're gonna stand before God

with our sin and unrighteousness or

we're gonna stand before God with the

perfect righteousness which do you want

ones available through faith alone apart

from any works and one is something that

we all have sinned so which do you want

a general conference bike where would

you know when it was no cuz I was

longing this year okay well while ago

okay but it was my Peter ecuador and he

said he said you will try your best to

be perfect and you will fail and that is

good

because then we need him without without

us being imperfect and without us

failing we wouldn't need Christ and we

wouldn't need our actions the only

difference is yeah I hear what you're

saying the only difference is the way

the Bible puts it God is so holy that

all of our righteousnesses are as filthy

rags to God all of your good attempts to

come to God are like nothing and

Mormonism and I don't mean this to be

offensive so just take it as a loving

critique Mormonism teaches that I need

to put some in and then then Jesus work

avails for me right it's Jesus and then

me the Bible says that we are corrupt we

are hostile towards God enemies rebels

before God we are dead in our sins and

trespasses that we have nothing because

God is holy that's right yes and the

Bible says there's no way to bridge that

gulf through a mixture of faith and

works in a matter of fact you know I

would only point you to one thing I know

it's gonna get crazy here in just sick

right I just point you to one thing guys

just read this tonight and I'll commit

to read something you tell me to read

something I'll just point you to one

thing the only has six chapters the book

of Galatians don't read it with any

anybody near you don't read it with even

me trying to influence how you influence

you just read Galatians one through six

Paul addresses specifically the kind of

gospel that you're saying that it's

grace plus my works he says that if you

choose that route

you're under the curse of the law to

fulfill all of it and he says Christ has

become of no effect to you no effect to

you whosoever of you attempts to be

justified by the law you've fallen from

grace now just forgive me for a second

he didn't say that to people who

believed they had to earn the way to

heaven he said that to people who

believed

yeah that's God's grace yes it's Jesus

but I've got to keep this one part of

the law this one part of the law to be

justified before God he says anybody

teaching that he says I hope they cut

their penis off so Galatians 6 5 he

really says that hope they he says he

says these guys that want to circumcise

you to be justified they say grace faith

and Jesus just do circumcision to be

right with God

he says I hope they emasculate

themselves yes so

I think to go on at that point I said

well one of the names Jesus Christ is

given in the Bible is mediator that's

right and to be a mediator it's a bridge

again that's right very good

yes agree you can't have half a bridge

right that's right right you need

another half so he provides we may even

only give one without there you go you

just said it as much but he will bridge

you just set it you just you just said

it I want to say this to you with

humility everything you just said was a

false gospel the fact that you think

that you even have half a bridge shows

that you know the fact that you think

you have an inch of a bridge a quarter

of a bridge you're righteousnesses are

as filthy rags you you don't have a

bridge you're on the side of the you're

on the side of the gulf dead bones you

need God's grace to put life in you to

give you a new heart you need Jesus to

give you a righteousness and to cover

that way towards God all on his own and

that's only a gift saying we're dead

what's good for spiritually Ephesians

well as many Ephesians chapter 2 we're

dead the dead in your sins and

trespasses brings us up he brings us in

life by grace you've been saved so to

put this in a time line sense of things

okay because this is this is how we view

this before everything

we're down he brings us to life and we

build this this is this woman we believe

we build as much as we can

he built the rest right yeah we believe

the same thing but in a more flowing

matter of no we'd say in a way and I

love you you believe in a completely

false gospel if you believe that God

gives me some and then I cooperate and I

add righteousness

it's God's Bible says it's you're dead

and God makes you alive together with

him by grace you've been saved you don't

know I just told you that's a gospel of

complete grace that has nothing to do

with you okay so nothing all we have to

do you're saying all we have to do is

show up turn to Christ and live in a

trust in him participation ribbon is

trut well and that's another issue is

when the fact that you believe you can

come God's one day God says before me

there was no God formed neither shall

there be after me you'll never make it

so he was thinking doesn't Jesus Christ

one one wants to give everything that he

has well just answer that I'll answer

your question but just I gave you the

verse he's before me there was no God

formed neither shall there be after me

that's defy I'm playing with a Bible on

ok all right

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I'm the beginning of the end I am the

Alpha and the Omega right so that

implies that he was here before anything

and he will be here after you but you

realize you can't answer a text from

Isaiah 43 with Nephi okay then I'll just

cut out I just like the Alpha know

Megamart sound okay he's been cuz I know

what I say it says I am the beginning in

the end can be upset first in the last

ya agree that God has created this

universe God is the creator of

everything

everything includes this universe yeah

so ever the order to create this

university would have to be here before

we agree with that being here after he

would have to create it

right yunano that's not nothing that's a

non-sequitur it's not necessarily

logically necessary for God to have to

be here philosophically speaking after

so we believe is that since he's the

creator of this universe to us but you

know you're not answering the verse I

gave you though

God says before me there was no God

formed neither shall there be after me

that's long before Joseph came along he

says I'm the first and the last besides

me there is no God he says no yeah

exactly telling these people who were

idolaters worshipping false gods you're

to worship no other God before me I

don't want any false gods in my sight

because people are idolaters but Joseph

taught you you can become a god one day

when God says there's none before none

after it's it's blasphemous to think

that you can become a god one day the

Bible says from eternity into eternity

you are God Joseph denied that Joseph

taught that God has not been gone from

all eternity

last one is to say that all we have to

do is show up tonight and say that I

said believe in Christ Christ to show up

so doesn't matter if I killed if I'm

healing but when I get to the end

because Hitler had a firm belief in

Christ you're already misrepresenting he

did not have a firm commitment of Christ

that's that's a that's fictitious she

realized that in history Hitler denied

that by the Bible's Christ specifically

said that he did he wanted a different

version of Christ he no he did not

believe in Christ he said that he didn't

believe in the biblical Christ he was

crew he was actually wanted a different

version of Jesus that would fit his

socialist ideas different Christ so so

yeah yeah so the question is how do we

go how do we know the truth and I would

say the Word of God is where we go to

for the answer Jesus says thy Word is

truth

Jesus says thy Word is truth James

didn't you realize that James did not

teach and James one that you can come to

God for an answer to a question and that

he would answer you like I'm gonna ask

God this question and he's going to pull

me into the wouldst answer my question

I'll give you this I'll give you I'll

give you this real fast if I said to you

hey I'm gonna pray about something right

now about whether I should go steal that

cop car right now

is that something I need to pray about

because we know God has spoken already

right

thou shalt not steal I don't need to

pray about whether I should steal

something murder some someone or or lie

or anything else because the God's

already spoken so when someone says to

me pray about Joseph Smith whether it's

a prophet of God see how you feel I know

what Joseph said about God just like I

know that God says do not steal and

that's why I don't go to pray about

stealing that car

God said before me there was no God for

now to show that be after me Joseph says

there were and you can become one one

day Joseph lied but I just demonstrated

to you that he contradicted God what if

you demonstrated I didn't say though the

text that has been translated to four

languages so far possibly is acting

wrong so do you know the difference

between transmission and translation

okay so the Old Testaments transmitted

to us in Hebrew primarily and then

Septuagint the Greek translation the New

Testament is written in Greek now if you

don't like an English translation today

study Koine Greek and then read the

original Greek text we have it so when

someone says the Bible has been

translated and corrupted you do realize

we can go back to the Greek text we have

it we have over 5,700 manuscript pieces

and copy of copies of the Greek text we

have over 19,000 translations from the

Greek into other languages you've been

lied to they told you that the Bible has

been translated and then retranslated

it's it they've lied to you I can I can

show you exactly what Jesus said in in

the Greek text from the original Greek

language we have it they told you it's

missing many plain and precious parts

but Jesus says God says in his word the

grass withers the flower fades the word

of our God stands forever this comes

down to this you seem like a very

devoted and and strong-minded person

this comes down to whether you're going

to believe Jesus or Joseph

do this I'm Jeff that's a way to get the

way to get a hold of me read this and

tear it apart refute me yeah you you

seem like a committed person get it my

name is Jeff contact me here I'll take

you all out to lunch I'll listen to you

I would care about you

I'll buy you hot chocolate okay we'll

hang out whatever but and I'll let you

guys go through that that text there and

show me where it's wrong okay okay and I

promise I'll listen okay

Alma 7:00 you got I will read almost

7:00 I promise

Galatians is what you guys read okay

Galatians yeah he says it hardcore yeah

he did say it right but he did say it

all right I'm Jeff what's your name

again

Casey Casey nice to meet you it's great

talking yeah

thank you so much for talking to us I

really appreciate it

well your heads were so much better than

the other people I don't even know what

his name was I remember but it was you

you guys know I had a little

conversation all right ma'am

I'm glad you're blessed all right look

forward to talking to you guys okay

almost 7:00 I'll read it tonight